superchargedill

Hello guys,
Newbie here and getting back into flying after many years of not flying. I have a 1/2a house of balsa P51 I built many moons ago and have a worn out Norvel 061. It ran great and hauled ***** when I first put it together. Are Norvel engines still available or what is the recommended replacement ?

I have an old OS10 that a friend said I should put on buy I wanted to keep the plane lightwieght and fast. Any advice is appreciated?

Kiteflyer

My Feedback: (17)

Norvel engines aren't available anymore; however, they do pop up on ebay, if you would like to continue flying her with it. A possible replacement may be the AP Wasp 061, but it's not as powerful as a norvel, and it suffers from a range of other issues.

[link=http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_8984886/anchors_8986254/mpage_1/key_/anchor/tm.htm#8986254]AP Wasp .061 trouble [/link]

salat

My Feedback: (4)

Hello!
I'm going break-in BigMig 061 towmorrow. Everything ready, but I've noticed warning in the manual telling to avoid using rubber. Rubber syringe, etc. They say that it will lead to irreversible damae of glow plug. I have fuel tank from Hobbycity and it seems contain rubber plug (or stopper?). It really does not look like silicone or something else, just plain black rubber (I may be wrong). Please tell me if it safe to use it or not? (I'm not going to store fuel in hte tank for long of course, just for engine run time.
Thank you,
Kostya

N1EDM

My Feedback: (2)

I would say that if it is rated for glow fuel, it should pose no problem. Also, when I broke in my .074, the instruction tell you to pour in some caster oil on top of the piston the night before, then turn the prop over 150 turns BACKWARDS.

I've never seen this before or since on any other engine... just curious... and the caster oil can't hurt as a pre-treatment.

Bob

lawrencelkl

Hi Folks,

Managed to have some experiments with the mod on Norvel AME .061 RC as mentioned by Andy on earlier post.

First, I fully screwed in the custom made adjustable air bleed and started the engine. It will die at low idle with a good top needle setting.

Keeping the same top needle settings, I opened the air bleed and keep all other settings the same. The engine started, and was able to idle well without dying.

However, one thing I found out was that the engine idle well, and will continue at same pitch/rpm even when I further closed the throttle. The main benefit has since been concluded as keep the engine running, rather than achieve a (much) lower idle.

Of course, I think fine tuning will let the engine idle lower rpm and the fact that I did have a proper tachometer at hand means no accurate numbers.

But one thing for sure, this mod is highly recommended for its preliminary results.

Will keep posted if further number/experiments come up. Thanks Andy!


Lawrence

jeffie8696

Have you done any experiments with adding glow driver heat? If your idle improves then a hotter plug may be in order. Ithink you may find them at Merlin Plugs but Iam not certain what his heat range is.

salat

My Feedback: (4)

Please post picture of carburetor modifications.
Thank you,
Kostya

lawrencelkl

Hi,

here are some photos of the modified carb. Andy, can you please help in giving more details?

Note the extra notch at the top of the carb and the adjustable air bleed.

Cheers.

Lawrence

lawrencelkl

Photos

salat

My Feedback: (4)

I see. I have on used 061 and one spare carb. Both already have this slot. But on mine it is bit smaller and rounded. Looks like made with very thin round needle file.
BTW, how much weight added by LMH cooling head?
Thanks

lawrencelkl

Hi Kostya,

I was using the LMH cooling head (Heli) because my aero head is leaking. I dont weight it but not much really as it is all aluminium i guess. another added benefit is that it can be screw/unscrewed by hand easily without the wrench apart from extra cooling.

Cheers

Lawrence

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Lawrence,

I'm glad to hear that the mods are working for you. Sorry for the late reply but RCU sometimes doesn't inform me of new posts to which I've participated in. Probably, this has something to do with my AVG firewall or virus defense. I'd rather have it too sensitive than otherwise.

In any case, I had been trying to get Norvel to include an adjustable airbleed from the day their first engine hit the market. That was when their carb resembled the current, Wasp carb. But just to be clear, Wasp stole the design from Norvel. But that carb had no slot and it was far easier to install the very necessary, adjustable airbleed.

When I heard that Norvel was coming out with a new throttle design, imagine my frustration when, not only did they not offer an adjustable airbleed, instead of an airbleed HOLE, (non-adjustable) they come out with this *&%$#^ slot. I posted near that time that slots have no useful purpose in this universe nor in any other. I did manage to get an adjusting screw to intercept the slot but that took three tries with two, ruined carb bodies.

THEN, in response to the fact that Norvels wouldn't hold their idle, they went and did something to prevent the engine from idling below 8K. Most planes, even heavy ones, won't land at that RPM. Aaaaaargh. [:@] How they did that was not easy to spot but eventually, I saw that they made the lower hole in the carb body, significantly smaller than the top hole. So when you close your throttle, it LOOKS like the barrel is still open, (from the top) but in fact, the bottom hole gets closed off sooner than normal and that shuts off the engine.

The first step is to open up the bottom hole to match the top hole. Getting around that miserable slot had me try a few other ideas and they worked but were a real pain in the keester. One day I came across a Philtech carb made in Australia, as pictured. Nicely made but they had the adjustable airbleed in an odd location. At first I was convinced that it wouldn't work but a closer look revealed the genius in the design. It's clear that the Philtech folks know their engines and know how our model carbs work. If you've never heard of them, I give you a teaser from their website.

================================================

Philtech is in the process of changing to a more compact and lighter design of V-Engine.

This is so that we can have an engine with 12 cylinders and still fit into a 63" wing span spitfire (IE.1/7 scale).

The engine also incorporates a reduction gearbox on the output shaft so that scale propellers
can be used and the engine can be mounted without inverting it.

This engine will be a more authentic to the WW2 aircraft enthusiast and deliver a better power
to weight ratio than our V6 engine.

We have also decided to replace the multiple carby system with electronic fuel injection system.
This will be easier to operate and more reliable with respect to tuning.


================================================

You're not seeing things, a V-12 in a 63" span Spitfire. My old, Sterling Spit was that size and a Webra Blackhead .60 flew it. Imagine the sound a V-12 will put out.

In any case, the adjustable airbleed on their carb works because while it's on the backside of the throttle, it's also at the bottom and that amounts to the same thing as the conventional location.

Doing it this way is a cinch and the only place you need anything special in the way of tools is a drill press for equalizing the holes in the carb body.

And BTW, the useless slot in this carb wasn't altered in any way. Did I mention that I hate slots? [:'(]

lawrencelkl

Hi Andy,

Thanks for your reply and some useful info regarding the Norvel carb history. I thought you made the slot but it is obvious that it is the last thing you would made such a slot that you hate.

the mod that you helped me to make is throttling well and I am thinking of puttign it back to the Norvel 1/2 A tutor replacing the current Enya .09.
Obviously the enya .09 provides higher pull but the offset is the increased nose weight which does not help much for 'smooth' landing..of course, that is to do with my skills.

i have currently get myself a rotary tool which i hope can help to make some alteration to the fuselage compartment so that i cna rearrane the battery location etc. this will help to balance and CG as the set up with norvel was previously found tail heavy, worse when funning out of fuel! ( the fuel tank is placed right behind the firewall.)

it is getting colder here in UK..also getting dark early...winter is definitely on its way. I havent really tried flying in winter as i virtually jsut taught myself to fly simple 3 channel fixed wings last summer. so, any advice for flying in cold weather? i.e. engine setting etc?

ok, take care and thnaks once again.

Cheers.

Lawrence

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Lawrence,

I'm pleased to help.

Winter flying can be a lot of fun on skis. Attached is my ski design. For the winter, the crucial part is making sure that your glow plug glows strongly, bright yellow. A dull orange will give you problems. This happens if you use on of those glow drivers that are attached to a single battery. The usual 1.25 volts goes down to 1 volt in the cold. Best is a power panel in which you can crank up the voltage to get a bright yellow glow. We had a fellow here, who brought a small, propane torch to heat up the cylinder for easy starts. You need to be very careful, it's hard to see the flame in bright daylight and you don't want to burn your plane or any plastic parts on the engine.

Cold and denser air contains more oxygen so you need to open up the needle valve. The idle setting usually get re-set automatically. A plus with cold and denser air is that you get more lift. In theory you do and in fact, most times you can feel the better lift. And more thrust from your propeller for that matter.

I love winter flying as you can see here. http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...ter+minisport#

Note the light, tight fitting, cotton gloves for warmth and for preserving feel of the transmitter sticks.

BMatthews

Guys, this is the Norvel engine FAQ thread. If you want to bring up skis and stuff please start another thread topic.

I'm going to leave the last two posts in for now but I'll delete them in a day or two to clean this up and keep it 100% Norvel.

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Hi Bruce,

I thought it appropriate because the airplane sports a Norvel .074 converted to diesel and illustrates how well it runs that way in the cold. Traditionally, diesels require you to fuss with the compression and needle every time you try to start them. Not the Norvel. A most amazing, diesel engine.

sj3cub

My Feedback: (9)

Guys, Whats does it take to get a Big Mig .061 to idle properly? My dad's engine is fine from say 40% on up to full power, but anything lower than 40%, it seems like it wants to load up and quit. He wishes he could do touch and goes with his Herr J-3. He has to land dead stick just to slow the airframe up enough to land properly. Engine has a fair amount of time on it and runs well at mid to full power settings. It was properly broken in and is run on Byron 25% nitro 1/2 A fuel.
Regards,
Scott

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

It needs an adjustable airbleed, a means to adjust the mixture at idle. That's why it's loading up at idle, not much different from any other engine. Why most 1/2A RC engine makers don't get it, I can't imagine. I've been advocating that for over 15 years, ever since I installed a throttle with that feature on to the VA MK1.

The trouble is, later Norvel engines were made so that you couldn't idle below 8K. The solution to that is to bore out the throttle body so that the hole at the bottom, matches the hole at the top. From there, an adjustable airbleed should work.

PART of the problem, though, could be your fuel. Even on a properly adjusted engine, I found that Byron 1/2A fuel, would not throttle as well as, for instance, Cool Power. What you can try, along with another fuel brand, is to add a couple of shims to the head. This forces you too lean out the main needle and that will lean out your low end at the same time. Another idea might be to buy and install, or make, http://www.rcuniverse.com/forum/m_45...tm.htm#4533758 a turbo button and you can play with various plug, heat ranges. All three items, (if you fiddle with them) could get you pretty close. The deal is, the fuel mixture has to match the demands of the engine at all throttle settings. The problem with the strategies outlined above, is that you could get your throttle response bang on one day but it might go sour on you the next time you change fuel brands or nitro content. Or, if the weather is drastically different, you may also have problems. An adjustable airbleed would make it all so very easy.

Having said that, even with everything going for you, sometimes getting it PERFECT may not be possible. Here, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qHD3Dt4rcwQ is an early Norvel .06 that's been converted to rear exhaust for use in a helicopter. But this clip does illustrate that getting a LOW and reliable idle, is possible. Transition is not perfect, but note that the engine didn't falter, it just needed a second or three to clear its throat. Making it rear exhaust and using an AME cylinder is the culprit so I tried this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-h76s_N8WPs&NR=1 That's a stock, LiteMachines, heli engine. Note that the carb is just a carb, not a throttle. Yet it works pretty well. A lot like Cox exhaust sleeves without a loss of some top end RPMs.

How this all works is that when you throttle an engine at the intake end, the engine has a tendency to go rich. When you throttle at the exhaust, the mixture goes lean. Coupling the two can give you perfect throttling and this is what was done in the old days, before mufflers became mandatory.

RMeadows

My Feedback: (28)

Hello All,
I have a prop drive hub for a Norvel, but don't know which engine it fits. I think it might be for a .074. Part is #100124-01. I am selling my 1/2A stuff, so any help appreciated. Selling for $5.00 plus shipping. I also have a Big Mig .049 RC, NIB. Any idea what it's worth? Thanks in advance for any help.
Regards,
Rob

66Malibu

Would anyone happen to have a spare plastic intake restricter for an early AME Zeus ? I prefer to run off suction rather than a bladder on a Sig SkyRay C/Liner.
Thanks, Steve..........

vh2q

My Feedback: (5)

Can't get my (used by someone else) 061 Big Mig to start ... not even a "blat" out of the thing. I took the head off ... the plug/insert glows fine at 1.4V. I found 2 copper head gaskets, a thick one and a thin one. I tried it with just one gasket, each of them, thinking that maybe it needed more compression. I tried squirting fuel into the intake, also into the exhaust port. I can hear the plug fizzing, but NOTHING. Compared to a Cox 049 (my only point of reference), this thing seems to have good compression. Yes, I have read the instructions ... throttle wide open, 1.50-2.5 turns on the needle. So far just trying to start by hand. My power starter is too big for this little motor. Any ideas before I chuck it and try a new/different motor? I am using 25% nitro/20% blended oil (50:50) with a little extra castor (addl 10% of total fuel volume) added. I have also tried it without the added castor. Silence. My finger is getting worn out!

mikegordon10

If you've got the plug lit as you say and it has compression and it's getting fuel like you say. Then you have 3 or the 4 things I have to have to start my 1/2 A's.
I'll let you take a guess as to what #4 is but I'll give you a clue it ain't yer finger.
I can't even imagine 1/2 A life without an electric starter. If your absolutely certain that it's not flooded then you can reverse the rubber insert on you bigger starter and you'll probably get it to start. But be very careful if you try this cause if it's hydro locked you could very easily bend or even break the rod. Or you could break down a buy a 1/2 A starter, they are on the bay from time to time. I think they go for around $25.

vh2q

My Feedback: (5)

I think it's the plug ... not getting hot enough with a 1.5v D cell. I will get a hotter plug. Well there's another thing I noticed ... the screw that looks like an idle screw has no needle on it. Is that how it's supposed to be, or is the needle broken off inside?

AndyW

My Feedback: (1)

Try squirting some 3in1 oil into the exhaust and flipping a few times. Then, close off the exhaust port with the piston and squirt some fuel against the side of the piston. Apply your glow igniter and flip. I've found that with a good, run in engine, it'll hand start on the first try but once the stiff oil is run through, it needs a starter. The Norvels had more taper in the cylinder than usual. This made hand starting more difficult.

longdan

Try 2-3 D cells in parallel. This will allow more current to flow than with just a single cell.
And an electric starter is almost a must (unless the engine has a spring starter on it). When I got my first Norvel, I tried hand starting it until my arm felt like it was going to drop off. Not a single pop out of the engine. Then someone at the field came over with an electric starter and a single squirt with that and it was away. That convinced me to go out and buy one.